Soviet Arizona

Wallpaper Other

Source (link to git-repo or to original if based on someone elses unmodified work): Add the source-code for this project on opencode.net

0
Score 46.0%
Description:

Reagan is spinning in his grave! What if the cold war had gone the other way?
by Joseph Bavier and Johannes Wilm with help from the Sodipodi Flag Archive and Inkscape.

!!Save the preview of the version you want. The "download" button will give you the SVG source for preview two!!
Last changelog:

15 years ago

0.3a
changed spelling in description

0.3
added faded version (save preview of version you want instead of using "download")

0.2
aligned color scheme of star and rest of flag (even sharper though)

0.1
initial release

soulrebel

15 years ago

well first of all i think its great to see some political contents on kde-look that is different than the other stuff.
i, as a socialist like soviet symbols, but not as flags or national symbols and not as glorification of a country, but of the ideads of justice and equality(which can NEVER be achieved in our current system).
i think of pride as an egoistic feeling and harmful in most cases. while most people do not agree on this (and i accept that) you will agree that pride is absolutely not marxist or socialist.
glorifying a country is something typically capitalistic and any persons that calls him/herself communist/socialist-whatever does not believe in this. countries and borders seperate us, they are used to keep people apart and caged!
as Marx said THE PROLETERIAT DOES NOT HAVE A MOTHERCOUNTRY!

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johanneswilm

15 years ago

well, true enough...
...but: this flag combines the state flag of Arizona with the symbols used by the Societ Union. I can not quite see how this is glorifying either Arizona or the Soviet union as Arizona never was a part of the Societ Union nor was the Soviet Union ever part of Arizona. It is exactly this mix that shows that there is nothing nationalistic that prevents Arizona from being socialistic.

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soulrebel

15 years ago

i know what you meant and i didnt criticize your art but the other poeple's posts about mother russia and their feelings of pride in america or russia.
keep up the work and make some more soviet kde art!(what about an icon set?) ;-)

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djurban

15 years ago

I am not Russian, I am Polish. There is no pride in your communist past. Or at least no normal human being would take pride in a nazi like history, where hundreds of thousand people were killed by overworking in terrible condition in gulags or over the far eastern Russia.

You should think twice before you write nonsense about being proud of that heritage. That heritage killed the elite part of many central european nations and what you should be about it is sorry, not proud.

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laughinol

15 years ago

That folks in the US believe it's fine to express your own beliefs. Good thing folks all over the world generally think freedom to express is a good thing too. Good thing you have pride in your heritage. Good thing I live where I do, too. ;)

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ilovemrtux

15 years ago

very cool wallpaper.

i find it works very well wih "night rock by tigert" circa KDE 3.2

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kilativv

15 years ago

The wallpaper is very good. Looks nice and proffesional.

I'm Russian myself and I think we should at least be proud of out communist past, when the world feared and respected Russia.

And we should never forget - the communist was never an evil ideology. It supposed to provide total equality and welfare for _ALL_ people. However it proved to be utopical and unachievable.

And as it was already stated, the US becoming more and more similar to what Soviet Union was. But what's even worse - so many people still beleive in this kind of democracy.... So what is "evil empire" now, huh?

Ð? Ñ‚Ñ‹, гнида неблагодарнаÑ?(drashkeev), вÑ?Ñ?кую Ñ…?йню гонишь. Ð?ебоÑ?ÑŒ продал родину за 3 рублÑ?, Ñ?валил за границу, вмеÑ?то того чтобы родине помогать.

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Sudonix

15 years ago

You know, I'm especially interested in how do you think _could_ he have helped his Fatherland(and preferably not getting ran over by the same country in the end)...

And no, I don't think this wallpaper is done exceptionally well artistically, but at least it's not over the top in the, erm, ideological sense unlike _some_ other ones...

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drashkeev

15 years ago

I like your English skills: I wouldn't think you were Russian at all if I hadn't seen that little paragraph at the bottom.

First of all, I wanted to mention that kde-look requires all posts to be in English. Second of all, I believe it requires the use of appropriate language. While I respect your opinion (and I did not leave Russia by my own free will, believe me), and understand that many others in the motherland feel the same way you do, I cannot respect you saying what you did in Russian so obviously to obfuscate the offensive nature of the post. Calling me a sell-out is all fine and dandy, but can't you say it to my face?

To call an emigre a traitor is much like calling a Jew living away from Israel a sell-out: while we all admire the ones who stayed, there's not much the ones who left could do about it.

If you did indeed stay to help the motherland as that paragraph implies, you might at least have had enough self-respect not to be cowardly.

As for the rest of your post, I agree with everything you said. I think our only point of contention is that you seem to see Communism as it was, as opposed to what it became. I maintain that to glorify communism is a slap in the face of our (sadly common) heritage: the star and the hammer and sickle are soviet symbols; the Chinese, for instance, use yellow stars on red background.

I would be very grateful if you took a look at the comment and asked yourself whether such people are really assets to the "rodina."

-D

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jbavier

15 years ago

Well my my. I just checked in to see the comments, and I must admit that I am a little flattered.
To Drashkeev, thank you for your intelligent commentary. Mr. Catch 22, I suggest you read up on the Central Asia Pipeline in Afghanistan and reserve terms like "ignorant" for those that actually fit the definition.
My comments do not necessarily reflect the views of my partner in crime, Mr Wilm. But I'd like to give a little background on why I helped out on this little project.
Yesterday, Ronald Reagan died. And after reading one nauseating unmerited eulogy too many, I felt like venting a little. After all, Mr. Reagan and his ilk made it their mission to destroy this country's vast economic and intellectual potential.
From his beginnings as a union activist with the Screen Actors' Guild, Ronald Reagan went on to betray his friends and colleagues, becoming an informant for Sen. Joe McCarthy and his witch hunt. As president, bankrupted our country financially, created many of the problems this current administration is exploiting for their own gain (after all the CIA under Carter and Reagan bankrolled the Mujahaddin and trained young Osama bin Laden), and brought us one giant leap backward in the area of social welfare programs (ask any of the tens of thousands of mentally ill Americans he turned out on the streets).
As has been stated already, communism is a "dream". But as dreams go, it's a pretty nice one. Full employment, free education and healthcare, society's betterment through social programs...
These are things the richest country in the world should be able to provide. But instead, in 1917, a poor agrarian country with no history of democracy gave it a shot. The shortcomings of the U.S.S.R., and there are of course many, should not automatically invalidate a social philosophy that has never truly been implemented anywhere in the world.
Finally, the former Soviet Union does not hold a monopoly on the Red Star. We got ours from Tito's Yugoslavia, which practiced a form of communism quite different from that of the U.S.S.R.: one that for nearly 50 years held together in peace peoples that for a thousand years had known nothing but bloodshed.
Quite and accomplishment, if you think about it.

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mrfoolish

15 years ago

I back you 100% on this one.

I have two problems with the critics of these Communist art wallpapers. I'm not quite sure how to describe the first one except to say that I think your critics are missing the point. For example, this drashkeev fellow claims that you're "glorifying" Communism. I think you're doing exactly the opposite, you're trivializing it! You've got to interpret this wallpaper as _computer desktop wallpaper_ with Communist iconography. It's this or a picture of some anime character or a hot girl in a bikini. The context makes all the difference. Wallpaper isn't very serious. Not everything is propoganda, people.

My second problem is that symbols have different meanings to different people, and it is simply impossible to be aware of how everyone will interpret them. To some people Communist iconography suggests a certain period in _American_ history, not Russian history, and a certain attitude towards that period. It's just like those 70s British punk bands wearing swastikas. They weren't pro-Nazi or anti-Jew, but anti-England. Wearing the symbol of an old enemy of that country was a way of saying "Up yours!" to the whole country... except of course those people who were "in the know" and agreed with them. To Americans, Communist iconography says the same sort of thing about America, and especially about the 80s and Ronald Reagan. Arguing that one particular interpretation should take precedent (the "official" interpretation?) is not good.

I guess that debates like this are bound to happen on an international website. There are a whole lot of Americans on here who don't know about other countries (like the former USSR) and vice versa. As such, we kind of have to rely on overarching principles. I'm inclined to say that "freedom is good" is one of those principles. Taking an entire artistic style out of circulation just because someone might be offended by it is censorship (exactly the kind of censorship which is not tolerated is free countries!) Likewise, banning unpopular opinions isn't tolerated in free countries. Someone in the old USSR or modern China might still like Communism. Perhaps the iconography still represents the dream to them. If this individual is not allowed to speak their mind, how free are we really? Thus even if this artwork were a pro-Communist statement it should be allowed to stay. No one person has the right to say which political views are okay (technically the owner of the site does since it's their server, but aside from that). Freedom is and should be the default. Note however that as a group we can rate a wallpaper into oblivion. This system seems reasonable to me. The default is to let people be free to do what they want, but the community does have some power to set standards.

Now the question becomes what should the community's standard be. How should I as an individual vote? I think that as long as any wallpaper has a point or purpose, I say that it should be allowed to remain. If there were no point to the work, e.g. it was purely intended as a slur or were otherwise inappropriate (hard-core porn, gory violence), then perhaps it could be considered purely inflammatory and treated appropriately (just like any other Troll). That really doesn't seem to be the case here, so there's no way I'm voting against it for that particular reason. However, this wallpaper is so ugly that I'm not voting for it either. :)

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jbavier

15 years ago

Yep, thanks. Can you believe it? The class war extends to a wallpaper forum.
We are taking ourselves too seriously.
I'm not a communist. But I am of the 'there's got to be something better than this' school.
Very well written comment, by the way.

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catch223456789

15 years ago

And naturaly the US went into afghanistan for one oil-line...right on. Just like in Somalia & kosova, real oil-states.

About the mujahadin and Osama, yeah the US funded the mujahdin against the Sovjet. Later Osama switched side to the taliban and the mujehadin was a part of the northern alliance, that in the afghan war was a US ally again. So what does that prove ?? That the US is simply to blame for 9.11 because one mujahadin soldier changes side ?? Because they couldn't foresee the future ??

The socialist ideology is flaved like many others. The fact that it simply failed anywere attempted, shows its lack of potential. The whole "full employment" "social wellfare" and so on, is only one side of the coin. In order to finance this, you need government administration of peoples income and you loose personal financial freedom. Full employment gives the need to invent work that produce no value, how will you imploy people producing goods that no one can afford to buy, when the wellfare system sucked up most of your earnings through taxes...and please, dont say "read up on das kapital" or some old stuff like that, relate to realism, not books. Here in scandinavie we have much social wellfare, free education, free hospitals and so on, but we also pay up to 75% taxes if your income is higher than avarage. The avarage income gets away with around 50% taxes, we pay 25% taxes on all goods, cars have 185% taxes and I could go on, and still wellfare needs more money to supply what socialism promises. So dont paint a perfect picture of it.

The nazi symbol is also is a budhist peace symbol, still we all know what it means, and its the same with the hammer and sicle...its the soviet unions symbol, a regime even worse than nazi-germany.

About the comment that reagon bankruptet the US, I find kinda odd, coming from a socialist. You of all people must believe in expanding the government sector...thats how socialism works, the state employs people (in Reagans case the army). State spending is expanded to produce jobs...

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jbavier

15 years ago

I won't get into your views on geopolitics. I don't think it's really the right venue. But I will comment on your view of the Taliban, as I think it is germane to the discussion. Where exactly do you think the Taliban came from? Did they appear out of thin air after the Soviets left?

Now for some figures from the U.S. Census Bureau on a little town called Douglas, AZ.
Pop. 14,300 (if you count the state prison inmates. the prison is the town's second largest employer)
86% Hispanic
Per capita income: $10,232 (less than half the national average)
36% (largely children) live below poverty level
54% have a high school diploma
9% have a college degree
less than half of working-age citizens are employed
most have no health insurance

I think you missed the point of my message if you think I idealized Soviet communism. But I went to university in Europe (Scaninavia in fact) and the social welfare programs that form the backbone of society have their roots in more extremist socialist philosophy.

Now if you want to continue to complain about high taxes, perhaps we could exchange passports. You'd save a bit on taxes, but risk bleeding to death in an emergency room because you don't have insurance.

In future, please show a little more curtosy in the tone of your messages. My arguments have been polite in tone throughout. Yours have not, and my patience is beginning to wear thin.

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catch223456789

15 years ago

Would you like to see some figures from North Korea ??, China ?? Vietnam ??

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johanneswilm

15 years ago

sorry man, but amongst other things I am also a Danish citizen having lived in Oslo, Norway for a bunch of years. And yes, the standard of living IS simple the highest available on this planet currently for a mass population.
The problems that one does have like anti neo-facism in Denmark (the Danish People's Party) and Neonazis in Sweden a couple of years ago are not really related to any real economic problems that people have as a result of too high taxes
Try living in some fo the poorer areas of Arizona for example: no health care, mediocre education standards, and all the young kids that are being recruited to the military as cannon food as they don't have any other hope for themselfs.
But of course, Scandinavia is not socialism - there are still big capitalists like Maersk and Roekke thta exploit people around the world. It's just as close to socialism as any modern country has come recently.

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catch223456789

15 years ago

Oh, were stil no were near socialism yet (thank God), but yes, our sociaty wellfare model is among the most left-turned in the world...but dont deny the problems it brings, things are NOT as rosy.

By the way, have you been exploited by Mearsk lately ?? I havent...he(they) bring jobs instead.

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johanneswilm

15 years ago

exploited? well if you are Danish you certainly have been: with the deal the government made with them in December, Maersk will keep control of 80-90% of Danish oil in the next 39 years.
In 2001, the Danish taxation ministry came up with a report showing that one could get 6.9 billion extra Danish crowns for that year if one had taxation equivalent to toher countries. Instead, the government's deal, they get 2.3 billion extra. That means they are already there giving Maersk 4 billion Danish crowns. These have to be paid for by the Danish taxpayer. Of course, one could also have all the oil in the hand of the state and all the oil money could go into building up infrastructure and finance social welfare programs.
And the stuff about jobs: jobs aren't really all that great. If we can get the same work done in shorter time, we can shorten the working day and h=ave more time for doing cool stuff.
And by the way, what are those problems in Scandinavia, that you don't really want to specify? I think you are just some right-winger that really has no clue of how bad people have it in countries that follow the policies that they are advocating.

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catch223456789

15 years ago

I am Danish, but I dont feal exploited by Maersk at all. The Danish state had their chance at getting the oil fields back when they where discovered, but back then the state believed that it wasnt profitable to pump up the oil, Maersk thought differently...and now you claim that the state should reclaim the oil-fields ?? Thats called stealing. Mearsk toke a chance and invested money, and now they take profit...thats only fair.

The problems that I hinted are many. Its the whole flip-side of the socialism coin that you dont mention. You only go on about how all will have jobs, how theres wellfare for all etc. What you dont mention is, as I mentioned before, the massive taxation, that this system requires. Right now i'm unemployed..and guess what, getting a job whould only mean slightly more income...so why should I bother? You can call me a right winger all you want, this "houlier than thou" thing is quite common for leftwing people all over the world. A wellfare system that gives people no consequense for their choises in life leaves people to not take responsiblety for their own actions, and actually rewarding those that wont do an ekstra share of work, and punishing those who work more. It might have escaped your attention, while living in scandinavia, that social problems still exists despite social wellfare. The whole "supporter-society" breeds nothing but people with "ask not what you can do for your wellfare, but ask what your wellfare can do for you" attitude.

Despite that fact that our hospital system is the most expensive in the world, its still is no better than the German. Our schools are among the worst in europe, all that despite government funding.

If it still exscapes you, my point is that socialism is just as flaved (in my oppinion, even more) as western "capatilism", if thats what you want to call it.

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catch223456789

15 years ago

Somehow I fail to see what relevance french colonial rule, US puppet government and so on has with this. Are you trying to make a statement that for example North Korea is triving now ??. What a cheap argument claiming that people in vietnam are now better educated under communist rule, than under french colonism. Oh yeah, chalk that one up to socialism. How would you expect a country to fare while being torn by war compared to in peace time ??

Somehow you seem to be trying to make this an argument about pro-colonism and anti-colonism. Whats next ? Are you going to blaim present-time USA for killing the Indians ??

"able to keep the fruits of their labor, instead of having them carted off to France or America!"

Yeah, they must be trilled to get payed slave-wages, vorking in sweat-shops and see the fruit of their labor being exported at dumping prices. The standard of living is skyhigh....no wait, it isn't. How can this be ?? I mean after all, theire under the divine rule of socialism..why arent they earning as much as the "exploited" worker in the west?

About our hospital system, my comparison was with the German hospital system. A system based on private insurences. They havent got problems with waiting lists...we do. The "joke of the nation" is that if a corpse gets dugged up again, its because he got moved up on the waiting list...our hospitals havent got the capacity to take all those needing treatment...despite that we have "free hospitals" for all. Again, Im trying to make a point, saying that socialism doesent cure all problems, like some make it sound.

"the Pentagon recently announced that 135,000 troops would leave South Korea for just one example"

well, now that you're so tied up with doing research, you might wanne correct that number...you see there are only aprox. 37.000 US troops in SK, and the plan is to re-deploy 3600 troops to Iraq, and in all decreasing the US precense in SK by 12,500troops, so you're only off by some 1000%. The increase in the amount of bases, might, and just like you im only speculating here, might be a result of the global "hotspot" moving from cold-war europe and korea to the present middle east/central asia.

"Moving right along to your comments on the nightmarish reality of life in Denmark"

I never did claim it was nightmarish to live here, I merely stated the fact the increased social wellfare doesent come for free, it needs funding. I pointed out that social problems, such as street violence, theft and what have we, simply doesent dissapear because of a wellfare system. This was an argument presented to show that things arent as rosy as socialist would like it to seem. Fell free to twist my words again, if you feel the need.

"Now, does the Danish People�s Party publish a manual entitled �How to Construct a Negative Argument Without any Facts� that you perhaps subscribed to?"

I wouldnt know, I don't vote for nor support those air-heads.

" I am a journalist and have a bit more regard for accuracy than you seem to be capable of providing"

Oh oh, a JOURNALIST..well I bow down before you as your humble servent. Did take the course "houlier than thou 101" at college ?

"You�ve taken far more of mine than you are worth, I assure you."

Forgive me oh great one, and thank you for letting me bask in the glory of your intellect.

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jbavier

15 years ago

I’ve been away for a few days working, but I’m back for the day, and hmmm, how interesting. I thought we were talking about the Danish and American social welfare systems. But since your offering to do a little research (how refreshing!) perhaps you could look up some figures on Vietnam.
Maybe you could give us some statistics on the literacy rate under French colonialism, U.S. puppet governments, and now under Vietnamese communism.
Then perhaps you could research a little on healthcare during the same time periods (the number of hospitals, the infant mortality rate, the financial costs to individuals, etc.)
And finally, you could even look into gross domestic product and per capita income. And, hey, how nice it must be for them to actually be able to keep the fruits of their labor, instead of having them carted off to France or America!
But then again, why should I expect you to research anything, as you haven’t so far and don’t seem to be capable.
A few examples, if I may:
USA only wants oil, will propably be your next claim...how much oil is there in afghanistan ??
Well, how about that Central Asian Pipeline? I believe I mentioned it, and here was your reply:
And naturaly the US went into afghanistan for one oil-line...right on.
Well, no. Actually, if you had actually bothered to check, the Central Asian Pipeline is, in fact, a gas pipeline. But yes, there is also an oil pipeline. Central Asia and the former Soviet republics commonly known as the Stans (Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Kazakhstan, etc.) sit atop what is believed to be the largest natural gas reserve on the planet. They also have oil. These countries have long been under Moscow’s sphere of influence, first as part of the U.S.S.R. and now as members of the CIS.

Control of energy is perhaps THE most important facet of geopolitics. Just look at the Middle East. And Central Asia, since the fall of the Soviet Union, is perhaps THE most sought after geopolitical prize. Russia continues to cling to its influence there. China is making an attempt to move in from the east. And American companies were building what would have been the West’s only means of exploiting the region’s valuable natural resources. At that time there was almost no condemnation from Washington of the Taliban’s human rights abuses and terrorist links. Later, the Taliban pulled support for the pipeline, and less than two years later the United States was occupying the country.

So, yes, the Central Asian Pipeline was a key reason for American action in Afghanistan. As the invasion was kicking off, the U.S. attempted to secure the right to set up permanent military bases in several Central Asian countries. There are now a dozen such bases in the region. And many continue to grow in size now that the Taliban has been defeated. It seems a little strange that, as the administration repeatedly pushes for a reduction in the size and number of overseas bases (the Pentagon recently announced that 135,000 troops would leave South Korea for just one example), it would push for new bases in Central Asia. So yes…right on. (most of this can be found on the World Press Review website)

Moving right along to your comments on the nightmarish reality of life in Denmark.
Despite that fact that our hospital system is the most expensive in the world, its still is no better than the German.
Please explain to me how this could be true. Denmark is a country of six million people. Do you mean, perhaps, that per capita Danish healthcare is the most expensive in the world? Sorry man, but I don’t think so. Denmark actually ranks 4th behind the United States, Norway, and Switzerland. Incidentally, Americans pay almost double what Danes do, and we don’t have a social welfare system that offers that care to all residents. It’s a pay for what you get system, and those that can’t pay, don’t get anything. These stats are from that beacon of international socialism the World Bank by the way.

Now, does the Danish People’s Party publish a manual entitled “How to Construct a Negative Argument Without any Facts” that you perhaps subscribed to? I am a journalist and have a bit more regard for accuracy than you seem to be capable of providing. So, yes, perhaps the word ignorance is applicable here after all. With your rather obvious inability to do basic research, you are making a fool of yourself and wasting all our time. You’ve taken far more of mine than you are worth, I assure you.

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catch223456789

15 years ago

since I cant reply to the answer I must do so here....

What facts am I making up ? Is it because they dont agree with you ??

Look it up, you find that none of them are fiction.

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johanneswilm

15 years ago

Sorry man, but you have reached the state where you're making up facts. I won't discuss this any further.

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drashkeev

15 years ago

Coming from the former USSR, I often wonder why Communism is considered so "cool" in these here parts... No one would dream of posting a swastika on kde-look, yet red stars are becoming quite the norm. A huge chunk of my family spent time in the camps during the Kulak repressions, all for being enterprising citizens. In my memory, my grandmother would never talk of her time spent there (she was two years old). My grandfather remembers finishing research projects with a Kalashnikow in the small of his back (a peculiar way of enforcing deadlines). Communism started as a dream of freedom, and ended as the apotheosis of opression. While I support free speech, I would suggest people excercise better taste when posting: there's no use in remembering a dream which turned into a nightmare.

The only reason you can post such a thing is because the country you live in does not follow the very ideals you glorify.

-D

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johanneswilm

15 years ago

sorry man, but the US is not much better. Yes, the USSR was a dictatorship, but what is the US now then with a nonelected President?
Also, I can post this not because my country has "freedom of speech", but because it has it for _some_ (which includes me) but not for others... like dissenting people in Iraq.
Think of the millions of people that were killed by the US in Vietnam, the overthrow of a socialist-like democracy in Chile in order to hand it to Pinochet...
Just because the Soviet Union misused the name "communism"/"socialism", there is just no other solution than real socialism/communism to the problem of the military-industrial complex under capitalism.

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15 years ago

0.3a
changed spelling in description

0.3
added faded version (save preview of version you want instead of using "download")

0.2
aligned color scheme of star and rest of flag (even sharper though)

0.1
initial release

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